The crime went unsolved for a good amount of time until DNA tied the twoteen killersto the triple murder. Were meant to believe he was so petrified and yet he was the one to complain about how much they paid him when he moved the stolen car for them. Two men who have served 20 YEARS for murder could be innocent - documentary claims THIS is the moment that Sebastian Burns confessed to his part in the murder of his friend Atif Rafay's parents Tariq and Sultana, and his sister, Basma. Instead, they put them up in a hotel with pagers, contact information and told them to get some sleep. Burns agreed. But the Bard program changed his outlook, and he threw himself into pursuing a degree in social studies. Meanwhile, the two men broached the subject of a gruesome triple murder involving the family of Burns housemate Atif Rafay. They did some things that were raucous. The police were becoming instant psychologists, he says. It didnt belong to Sebastian, ergo it was irrelevant.. On July 12th, 1994, Rafay's father, mother, and 21-year-old autistic sister had been bludgeoned to death by baseball bats in their Bellevue home. Such evidence provides clues as to how many people were involved in a crime, because when blood spatters, a clear spot is left on the wall behind where someone is standing. Why not one cop, who already used reddit, making a bunch of accounts after seeing the thread and the show, trying to justify themselves? They sprayed the shower with a chemical that reveals traces of blood, he says, and boom, it lit up like a Christmas tree. It was the blood of Rafays father. It wasnt pretty. They see a lot of money at the end of the rainbow. The ones saying they are guilty because of their confession are actually missing the point made in the programme about criminal braggadocio, even an experienced D.A agent so wanted to impress a Mr Big, he said things that would have got him indicted for homocide - things that were complete lies. Da Jacquie Et Michel ELITE (Attenzione Nudo Integrale) After the boys 2004 trial, in which they were found guilty and sentenced to life without parole, she left her job as a TV newscaster in Cleveland in order to make a documentary about the Mr. Bigtype sting operation, calling into question the methods used by the RCMP. They capped their night with a meal at a diner in Seattle after going out to a Seattle club, they said. Ive always been interested in this case as I lived in North Vancouver and so did they. Those conclusions are heavily detailed in True East. In the episodes, viewers peak into interviews from Bob Thompson, a Bellevue detective; James Jude Konat, the senior prosecutor; Dave Burns, Sebastian Burns father; Ken Klonsky, a wrongful convictions scholar; Brian Hutchinson, a Canadian reporter; Loretta Fisher, Atif Rafays wife; Jason Saunders, an appellate attorney; John Everston, a juror who convicted them; and Michael Levine, a Mr. Big expert, among many others. The Rafay family had recently moved to Bellevue from Vancouver, B.C. Mani Razi. Contributed mug shots Some may remember the triple homicide that shook Bellevue's Somerset Hill in 1994. King County wants to know, XFL is back in Seattle heres what you need to know, Legislation seeks to strenghten Washingtons abortion laws, Robbery suspect ends up hiding in a tree | Podcast. Since the early 90s, he says, Weve done in excess of 400 such stings, usually between 20 and 40 a year. Unofficial Netflix discussion, and all things Netflix related! A biology professor at Boise State University, he points to testimony from the states expert on blood spatters. Sep 9, 2002. The 33-year-old actress appeared on a panel . I definitely believe he did the actual act. The jury at the mens six-month trial was told Rafay was motivated by money and planned the killings while Burns carried them out. He was very smart/clever with a fatal flaw: other people weren't quite as dumb as he assumed. On Thursday the Washington. Ned Booth. He says the problem with the substandard Mr. Big sting operation in this case is that the undercover agents were pursuing a confession, not the truth. The coverage, like public opinion in general, was not sympathetic to the accused. The victim ultimately begins to believe the lie. Found guilty of bludgeoning Rafay's mother, father and autistic sister to death, Guilty of three counts of aggravated first degree murder, each received three life sentences without parole in a US prison. Atif Rafay uses his time in prison to help other prisoners get their high school diploma. Loudenberg began researching cases for The Confession Tapes a year before she brought it to Netflix, but she didnt find this case until the end of that year. It seemed like nothing that I wanted to have much to do with.. It's been seven years since a King County Superior Court jury found Atif Rafay and Sebastian Burns guilty of three counts of aggravated first-degree murder for the 1994 bludgeoning deaths of. People do claim to commit crimes they havent done, says Richard Leo, a law professor at the University of San Francisco who has written extensively about false confessions. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this, and the case in general. It took a long time before the two went to trial as they had to be extradited from Canada which has a policy not to extradite if the death penalty was a possible punishment. Sebastian Burns And Atif Rafay - Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay were convicted in a triple murder Josiah Bush (16) - Josiah Bush would murder two people Timothy Buss (12) - Timothy Buss would first murder at 12 and then would kill again at 27 Alyssa Bustamante (15) - Alyssa Bustamante was fifteen when she murdered a nine year old girl I do believe they are innocent, director of the docu-series Kelly Loudenbergsaid. He says he sustained a facial fracture in an assault, was held afterwards in segregation for months, and lost so much weight that prison authorities judged him to have an eating disorder and forced him to take anti-depressants and anti-psychotics. Rafay is not expected to take the witness stand in the trial, which. So this is the second time I've watched the show since it came out. Following a six . The two men have spent nearly half their lives in prison serving three consecutive life sentences with no chance of parole. In a statement released Sept. 20, Daniel T. Satterbergs office said the two episodes totalling 90 minutes do not present a full or fair account of the crime, the defendants confessions, or the evidence presented at the six-month trial. So you might want to play ball. In 2014, the Supreme Court ruling called into question the reliability of confessions obtained during such a sting, and legal experts say dozens of cases of convictions could come under review. Sebastian Burns (19) and Atif Rafay (18), who had been in Bellevue for a number of days to visit Atif's parents, arrive at the home around 2am to find a terrible scene. If he had that perception, that is something that his imagination couldve worked [up].. The crime went unsolved for a good amount of time until DNA tied the two teen killers to the triple murder. In May of 2004, Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay were convicted of the July 1994 murder of Rafay's parents, Tariq and Sultana, and his sister, Basma. Asked if he did, indeed, feel threatened, Rafay said, Yeah actually, extremely so. Burns, presupposed to be the one who actually bludgeoned the Rafay family, has suffered a far worse fate. I mean wtf! But he doesnt think Burns and Rafay were frightened into confessing. A long extradition battle hinged on whether King County prosecutors would promise not to seek the death penalty, as demanded by Canadian officials. Hence, he was not an academic star like his friend Rafay, who got a scholarship to Cornell. Atif also suffered from a little bit of hubris. Their behavior after the murdersfor instance playing music so loud at a Vancouver house they shared that neighbors complaineddidnt help their profile, he says. I object to the use of the word eccentric,' David Burns interjects. Others may have just learned about the crime through the recently released Netflix docu-series, The Confession Tapes.. Burns, who had most of the contact with the undercover agents, initially denied having anything to do with the murder, Klonsky says. I live in Vancouver and a lot of us followed this case closely at the time. OLYMPIA A day after the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade last June, Democratic Gov. Atif Rafay and Sebastian Burns would confess to a murder in order to avoid the death penalty however many believe it was a false confession. Mr. Ponytail stole a car, then Mr. Big, an apparently senior gangster, pressured Burns into driving it back to Vancouver. I thought that it was very fascinating, but googling those facts I could find absolutely nothing at all. Watching the first episode again was equally as sad as the first. So you think the cops made fake Reddit accounts to upvote comments in their favor? Sebastian Burns's hair was found in the shower, mixed with the Rafay's blood. Thats a long way from being a murderer.. I say they are guilty. I work in Psychology, and this is in part gaslighting-something you see in domestic violence, and something you see from people with certain Personality Disorders. Yet, Hampikian notes, Rafay had told Mr. Big that he wasnt present during the murder of his father, which would leave only Burns in the room. The creators disagree. It isn't 100% effective but it has solved murders, or rather helped convict murderers. He and his older sister were raised in West Vancouver, where Sebastian graduated from West Vancouver Secondary School in 1993, and where he began an Arts degree at Capilano College. Atif and his family moved to Washington State but kept in close contact with Sebastien. Burns and Rafay, both Canadian citizens, had been staying at the home since July 7. The press frenzy continued, on and off, for 10 years, as the case dragged on with a soap operalike trajectory. For anyone that is not familiar with this case, I've left a link to the case at the bottom of the description about the case. David D. Burns (born September 19, 1942) is an American psychiatrist and adjunct professor emeritus in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the Stanford University School of Medicine and the author of bestselling books such as Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy, The Feeling Good Handbook and Feeling Great: The Revolutionary New Treatment for Depression and Anxiety. I dont put any weight at all in what Miyoshi said, Loudenberg said. It wouldve been extremely easy for them to leave during the movie, commit the crime, then go to Seattle, go about their evening, and come home to stumble onto the crime scene. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. A British native, now retired, David comes across as starchy. Al Haslett was one of the originators of the technique in the early 1990s. The documentary-style, multi-episode, true crime series begins with two episodes titled True East, and are dedicated to the Rafay murders. He said something was not quite right and questioned their alibis. The state bar claims Olson broke a legal-ethics rule adopted in 2000 that prohibits lawyers from having sexual relations with clients. Very specific things, the one that stood out to me was how Sebastian supposedly agreed to taking a hitman job for the Mr Big operation. It was so much to sort through, but we had a big team and we just started to sort through it, to make sense of it, she said. He points further to forensics evidence that he says leads away from Burns and Rafay: a hair found on a bed that was neither theirs nor the victims, and blood found that was a mixture of Rafays fathers and some unknown persons. Was it even submitted to the court? It wasn't until well after midnight that Atif Rafay and his best friend, Sebastian Burns, entered the Rafay house to find Atif's parents fatally bludgeoned, and his sister clinging to life. They pulled the same thing on another North Van kid that i knew well. When you say its imagination, theyre not making it up. Rafay, also 32, retains some of his former traits too. But it has been tried these past years in a terrible way. These cookies do not store any personal information. I didnt want to become a hit man for himI wanted to indicate to them that this is not something that Im ever going to do and yet at the same time Im not ever going to rat you out, Im not going to do anything to compromise your organization.. Living in solitary confinement for the past 8 years, one of tens of thousands of such prisoners in the USA, he has developed psychological problems that may be beyond cure. Therefore, I believe it to be plenty of motivation to order the elimination of the threat to the religion. . And although they would later volunteer a supposed confessionin a Canadian hotel, which led to their conviction and prison sentencing after a six-month trial in 2004, the makers of The Confession Tapes arent convinced. Burns confided that he and his high-school pal, Atif Rafay, had an idea for making a movie about two teenage boys falsely accused of murder. Your skin burns under the force of his milky gaze and the secret, orb-shaped power cocooned within your blood and bones. Vilified for his love of Nietzsche, Rafay nurtures it nonetheless. Often it is a relief from ones own degradation.. Atif Rafay claims he wasnt informed of the memorial, and Klonsky, the wrongful convictions scholar, explains in the documentary that the two were goofballs in shock.. In the episodes, viewers peak into interviews from Bob Thompson, a Bellevue detective; James Jude Konat, the senior prosecutor; Dave Burns, Sebastian Burns' father; Ken Klonsky, a wrongful convictions scholar; Brian Hutchinson, a Canadian reporter; Loretta Fisher, Atif Rafay's wife; Jason Saunders, an appellate attorney; John Everston, a juror But the King County Prosecutors Office feels otherwise. On that fateful day in 1995, Rafay and Burns appeared to do just that. Another defense consultant barred from testifying at the trial was a former Drug Enforcement Administration undercover cop named Michael Levine. But, whether Bellevue residents believe in alternative theories or if Atif Rafay or Burns gave false confessions, Loudenberg thinks people should look into the case for themselves. On the night of the murders, the two young men claim they ate dinner at The Keg before watching the Lion King at the old Factoria Cinemas. Had I been the juror there I would go full "12 angry men" and focus mainly on the evidence shown in the case. It was for the life insurance money. . After the interrogationAtif Rafay and Sebastian Burnsfled to British Columbia Canada where Burns still lived. Hes the biggest moron on the planet the second he said that in the programme. She said she found out about it through a false confessions expert, Richard Leo, who was going to testify in the case, but was ultimately excluded from the trial. Fox and Olson were working hard to defend Sebastian . They were highly coercive and I dont think it should be have been allowed in a U.S. court, and I think it should also be taken into account their age, Loudenberg said of the then-19 year olds. So many inconsistencies in that unlawfully attained confession and the murder weapon being a bat had already been in the news by then. And a comprehensive remaking of states approach to drug possession advances toward action in the Senate. That confession doesnt hold water with me, Hampikian says. The CBS program 48 Hours did a special, which also spawned a book, Perfectly Executed. Illegal in most countries, including the U.S., the Mr. Big tactic had new limits imposed on it last summer by the Supreme Court, which said the operation risked producing unreliable confessions but did not forbid it outright. Hes upset that in Mr. Big he appears to bolster the contention that theres something inherently wrong with it; he says he tried, unsuccessfully, to have himself removed from the film. Is there an element of the case we aren't privy to? Loudenberg began researching cases for The Confession Tapes a year before she brought it to Netflix, but she didnt find this case until the end of that year. It was handed on a fucking plate. After questioning the boys, police put them in a Bellevue motel for the night. The strangest part: the way James Jude Konat, like all the prosecutors in this series, was so happy to perform for the camera, more game-show host than lawyer. Link to discussed reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/netflix/comments/6zghqr/the_confession_tapes_atif_and_sebastian/, Link to Rafay and Burns trial: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v_Burns. Its been more well-documented in the age of DNA, he says. Loudenberg said she didnt know True East would go on to lead her series, but she ended up spending so much time researching, traveling and submitting Freedom of Information Act requests, that it ended up being one of her biggest cases. Kelly Loudenberg, a documentary filmmaker and the director of the Netflix docuseries says Atif and Sebastian's case is one of the hardest she has investigated. They capped their night with a meal at a diner in Seattle after going out to a Seattle club, they said. Tiffany Burns SIFF-screened documentary aims to clear brother Sebastians name, and stick it to the cops in the process. Its hard to imagine they did such a crime and did not have any blood, Hampikian says. While the Bellevue police department was keeping tabs on the boys, the RCMP had launched its own investigation using a trademark technique dubbed by the Canadian press as a Mr. It's 2:01 a.m., July 13, 1994, and he had just called 911 to report the death of his friend Atif Rafay's parents Tariq and Sultana, and his sister, Basma, at their new home. So naturally, I decided to do some googling to see if there was any updates with the two that were arrested. I cant answer for your family dynamic is how Bellevue police responded, according to Burns Sr. 33K views 5 years ago Dr. Tariq Rafay, his wife Sultana and their 20-year old daughter Basma were viciously bludgeoned to death in their Bellevue, Washington home on the evening of July 12, 1994.. Two teenage boys who arent mentally and emotionally mature yet see a horrific bloody scene of the family of one and Im sure Burns was close to the family too, in what world is it normal to expect a young boy to walk through the blood puddle of his own sister and look into her beaten face to make sure shes alive ? Eventually the prosecutor in the case promised the Canadian authorities that the death penalty would not be used. In this weeksfifth estateepisode, Cops, Criminals and Confessions, Rafay says he was angry when he learned Burns had got him involved with the supposed crime gang that was to somehow influence their case. I have one question about the Mr Bigg set up!!!! Song. Atif was suppose to participate in the murders but lost his nerve once they entered the home, According to prosecutors the goal of the triple murders were the half a million insurance policy and the money that would come from selling the family home, Atif Rafay and Sebastian Burns were taken into custody and interrogated for three days before they were released. Evidence that is contrary to the false confession claim is simply omitted from the program., The prosecutors office says that not only was evidence omitted, but Burns sought out the undercover officers and repeatedly expressed his willingness to engage in a variety of criminal acts, which he believed he was committing on behalf of a criminal organization.. Instead, The Confession Tapes and the True East episodes make the case that extremist group al-Fuqra could be viable suspects for the killing of the Rafay family because of Tariq Rafays research on the true angular degree in which Muslims should pray, hence the title True East. His research called into question an entire religions practice. It is mandatory to procure user consent prior to running these cookies on your website. The two Canadian born teens would fatally beat Rafay father, mother and sister. men sentenced to 99 years in jail for the 1994 murder of a Seattle family have lost their final chance to have their conviction reviewed. The idea, he says, is to put people at ease so theyre as comfortable as you can get them to discuss their previous crime. And he adds that flashing money around is a crucial part of the game. Ominis twists to face you fully, and grabs the hand lingering between you two for a tender kiss on your knuckles. Random terrorist attacks, killing hundreds, thousands, have been committed over far less. Conversely, I wonder on what basis all the appeals have failed. He described it, they found his hair and the dads blood in the shower and he said it was because he did it naked. Author: Raechel Dawson well the fact that the entire Mr Big operation never revealed any holdback information (info police withhold from the media to verify confessions) whatsoever means its entirely possible the kids were bullshitting. Two days later, he and the investorwell call him Mr. Big arranged a meeting with Burns. Search for jobs related to Sebastian burns wife or hire on the world's largest freelancing marketplace with 20m+ jobs. On the floor of the shower, Thompson emphasizes. He cautions that, no matter how much research you do on a case, you can never know the absolute truth of anything. Nonetheless, he says he simply cant fathom that the Rafay he knows would watch his family be bludgeoned to death. There was also "no DNA or anything on me because I was naked when I killed them" vs "we dumped all the clothes in dumpsters", vs "we threw stuff out of the window", vs "Rafay was downstairs and wasn't involved at all". Instead, The Confession Tapes and the True East episodes make the case that extremist group al-Fuqracould be viable suspects for the killing of the Rafay family because of Tariq Rafays research on the true angular degree in which Muslimsshould pray, hence the title True East. His research called into question an entire religions practice. Peter Marsh, director of special operations for the RCMP in British Columbia, says he is reluctant to discuss Mr. Big techniques for fear of giving away too much to potential targets. Sebastian was represented by Neil Fox and Theresa Olson. Two men that were known associates to her at the time of her death were Dustin Moir and his father Jesse west. First the background on Mr. Big and The Confession Tapes on Netflix. In addition, Atif Rafay and Burns friend Jimmy Miyoshi, who testified at their trial against them, admitted that he knew of their plans to commit the murders and that the motive was financial. And they didnt ask for key information that only the real murderers could have known, like how they got Rafays mother to lie in a prone position with a scarf over her head. Well it's not exactly that I believe that is most definitely the case, obviously that's a bit of a conspiracy theory there, but the department handling the case were very shady from the start and their general attitude towards the whole case comes off as very defensive to me, as if they don't like it being brought up. Maybe we arent seen as straightforward. Riley Keough said she told a lie that she could sing when she was being cast in her new series Daisy Jones and the Six at the Four Seasons on Monday. Thats why they take part.. On the night of the murder, Bellevue police questioned the two young men, but didnt arrest them. He was staying with the family for a while, obviously his hair was going to be found in the shower? A "gangster" who purports to having killed people, committed acts of extreme violence, says "tell me the truth, don't fuck me over, I know what happened, so don't you fucking lie to me" to a kid who's a) eager to impress, and b) aware that he could end up having his spleen ruptured as a consequence of "Mr Fat Big" not believing him? Some may remember the triple homicide that shook Bellevues Somerset Hill in 1994. And that, he says, is blatantly illegal in the U.S. Tiffany Burns documentary says the same thing. Though I cannot say exactly why the two were targeted, the only thing I can think is because they were too lazy and lacked the patience to actually investigate the evidence of the crime itself and wanted to just have a conviction so they could wrap it up, go home and be paid. Lawyer caught in sex scandal. They have turned in legal briefs; prosecutors are scheduled to do so by months end. The part that bothers me about this case is the way the confessions were obtained, and that it was admissible in an American court room. A consultant for the defense in the Rafay case at the time of trial, Leo says Mr. Big tactics are likely to produce false confessions because its psychologically coercive. While he doesnt remember all the details of the sting operation, he says he believes threats or implied threats were involved. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. So, I googled their names with "reddit" at the end, because topic discussions on reddit are always great reads. Incarcerated at the age of 16, he spent the first part of a 15-year sentence sweeping floors and wishing he could go off to college like his friends on the outside. Shes at her home in West Vancouver, a Tudor two-story with a dramatic cliff garden rising from the patio, which she shares with her husband David and 37-year-old daughter Tiffany, who has moved back in while she promotes her film and looks for a new TV reporting job. Then, as the trial approached, Burns was caught in a jailhouse sexual encounter with his public defender, Theresa Olson, who famously described the incident as a hug gone bad. She and her co-counsel were removed from the case. when the brutal murders occurred. King County wants to know, XFL is back in Seattle heres what you need to know, Legislation seeks to strenghten Washingtons abortion laws, Robbery suspect ends up hiding in a tree | Podcast. When Sebastian "left the cinema half was through the film", were there security cameras confirming this, or indeed leaving at the time the film finished? Also, why was the informant's testimony dismissed (the extremist group assassination)? Instead, they put them up in a hotel with pagers, contact information and told them to get some sleep. Loudenberg said she has the entire interrogation of Miyoshi and said what was left out of the prosecutors offices statement was the RCMPs threat against Myoshi with 99 years in prison and even a suggestion of the death penalty if he didnt give evidence against his friends. It was the Canadians - of their own volition - who undertook the Mr Big sting. Theres not much evidence going in their favour. Although illegal in the United States, the RCMP wire tapped their house without their knowledge and began a months-long tactic called the Mr. Big technique, in which undercover police disguise themselves as criminals. Smiling and laughing in a hotel room one day with their criminal friends, Burns and Rafay owned up to the crime, with Burns described as the muscle for two of the three murders. Its a legal strategy, pursued in appeals briefs as well, that he believes will keep Burns and Rafay in jail even though theyre 100 percent innocent.. His father Tariq was a structural engineer that worked around the world and his mother . Loudenberg said she has the entire interrogation of Miyoshi and said what was left out of the prosecutors offices statement was the RCMPs threat against Myoshi with 99 years in prison and even a suggestion of the death penalty if he didnt give evidence against his friends. Defence counsel Marie Henein argues inthe fifth estatepiece that threats of one kind or another are the very essence of the Mr. Big sting. I thought that was interesting, so I looked at the comment thread to see what other people thought. At first he said he did it naked and then later on they described how they got rid of their clothes after the murder, so which is it?