1952~57 Chrome latch, no script or crest. From then on, it would be an Ambassadeur that went on all my fishing trips. #760903 had three design changes and is now the fourth version. 1973: ABU produced the Ambassadeur 4000. Once done, you can pour Acetone in a coffee cup and soak these parts. 5000De Luxe was neverdelivered with a counter-balance handle (#9219),only the small twin knob type.(#5179DL). Reels. "ABU" engraving is well left of the spool cap. The information given hear has been practiced on every reel in my collection and includes the expensive presentation models which are plated in 24KT gold. Engraved with it's model number, it was not serialized but stamped "Made in Sweden" on the foot. The overwhelming majority I've recorded have been between 103xxx~107xxx. I wouldn't have discovered this reel if it hadn't been for Simon Shimomura's dedication to the Ambassadeur and his books which are so inspiring. Original ABU stamping dies from this periodare used for most of his production makinghis side plates almost identical to ABU. This was needed in order for the wrench to access the handle nut as the distance between thetwo was to tight. CLICK TO ENLARGE MOST PICTURES ON THIS WEB PAGE! Again, look closely and you willsee the friction washer as shown in the 1969 parts schematic for this model. At the end of the year, ABU acquired its American distributor, the Garcia Corporation. Case measurements for the 5000 model are 4 7/8" inch long and 6000 case measures 5 1/2" inch long. The design of Small Ambassadeur was enduring. Ambassadeur 5500 (Brown) , 1976: ABUs Wallenberg Groups Incentive AB Ambassadeur 5600C 6500 (), 1977: ABUAmbassadeur 1500C, 4500, 4500C, 5500 (),5500D, 65006600C ABU5600CDL, a 24K , 1978: Lennart Borgstrom ABUs ABU Garcia Corporation. There were at least three systems used for foot numbers - yours looks like the final system: 80 - 1980 Please view all the pictures and ask any questions. 1949: Ake Murvall is hired as the Production Manager and Chief Designer. This is not necessarily the case with all ABU original or reproduction plates. Production of the 1500C IAR and 2500C IAR continued into the Pure Fishing era until late 2003 before Pure Fishing took a 3 years break. The black synthetic leather cases came in three styles. If by some chance your reel is a 4 screw model then it is likely a 1967 model. You will see the various tools I use and are not necessarily the only tools you need. The handle nut version on this 5000B suggests the same era. I've seen one other 6000 like this and my friend, noted historian Mr. John Cox of England, knows of one other as well. Because of this, collectors can not be certain the frame is original on early 6000 models before lot numbers. Picture Information. 1939: Record Gote Borgstrom , 1941: ABU p RECORD 1400, 1500, 1600, 1700 and 1800. Some of the information provided here was from my dear friend Simon Shimomura. Thanks, Richard, The 1970s and later models are much easier to date than the earlier ones. An unknown number of them were manufactured sometime between 1956 and very early 1958. $125.00 ABU Ambassadeur 8000 Automatic 2 Speed Vintage Fishing Reel Very Nice! Fewer than a hand full are known to exist in the low #80xxx range with #80512being the highest numberknown by meat this time. Male knurlingdoes not have the "XXX" pattern. Another example might be 120501. This one is chocolate in color. Since it was introduced in Sweden in 1952 and made its debut in the US at the New York Worlds Fair in 1954. Brake plates for original brown 6500 are silver. Late 1960s Ambassadeur Sweden in script with crest, Ca.Early to mid 1970s, button snap Ambassadeur Sweden in script with crest. Ambassadeur 1500C2500C19751985(1985Small ABU Ambassadeur ), 10403(4.003.2704.011.7744.042.186)2, 19753Ambassadeur 2500C19761976, 2500C21500C2500C1500C197931500C2500C19821985. With the collapsed of the Asset Price Bubble in 1991, Japan experienced the Lost Decade. The fact that many of their parts are interchangeable makes it even more important you understand when and what reel these parts were assembled to. Simon Shimomura side plate manufactured before 2015 have "7" hook font. Trying to figure out if I should fish it or pass it along to a collector. Around this era , two other Ambassadeur 5000 reels , namely the B (still red, but with Clicker) and C (black with ball bearings rather than bushes) models Gold plating is missing in several areas youshouldn't see duringnormal use or handling. The reel is red and in a nice leather case with a small tube of oil and also a small tube of spare parts. Full ORCA membership benefits run from Jan to Dec for 1 or more years, Access the Library of over 60,000 catalog pages of reels and 600 schematics, Get Reel News 6 times a year. As of February 2020, there are onlyforty units known by me to exist. Accessories include high capacity extra spool, tube with gold parts, cloth bag with gold draw strings, oil bottle, wrench, sterling silver name plate, and paperwork. Lot number 740500 has no design changes. ABU Ambassadeur no.5000 serial number 312885 value. Only the 3-screw version was included. These reels are still functional today; some close to 70 years later. The gray arbor/black flanged spool pictured below seems to be connected with 5000 models having a serial number right around the 100000 mark. L & L Home Solutions | Insulation Des Moines Iowa Uncategorized abu garcia ambassadeur serial number lookup That would actually be 2003. My serial number research and supporting 6000C evidence continues to lead me to January 1968 as the date of the frame change. 1977: ABU Museum was established. Can anyone tell me how to date these reels. I do not know the history behind this decision but I suspect it had to do with cost. I have found that the side plates will retain their color for well over a year without re-applying. 1995: Proventus sold Abu Garcia to Pure Fishing. The reel must have a smooth foot, smooth top spool tension caps (left side skirted) small twin handle AND grooved rims. Acetone will not hurt the colored dye finish on these reels. Serial # 164188 This reel has a regular crank handle with two grip rollers. Here's an excerpt taken from Simon's latest book, The Mystique of Ambassadeur, Its Unexplored Stories. : Record Ambassadeur MOD SG ;RECORDE2C)C Record Ambassadeur. Simonowns #1, #3, #7 and #10. *Black Ambassadeur 5500C (Decal Model) was introduced in 1979. 1887: Halda Watchmaking Company (A.B.Halda Fabriker) was established by Henning Hammarlund. Confirmed shipping record information for serial number #500275 shows it was shipped from the factory on July 05, 1965. #010876 - Lowest 3-screw serial number known by me as of July 2017. Transitional reel's of notoriety are the non-ABU 5000 with neither ABU or Record engraved on the left side plate, the 4-screw version of 5000C De Luxe and the ABU engraved 6000 below. These reels had plastic side plates and were made in mind for saltwater fisherman. As many will know, the Record Ambassadeur 5000 was designed by ke Murvall, starting in the late 1940s. If it does not, the frame is most likely a replacement. With the Ambassadeur 1500C ceasing her production in March 1979, the Ambassadeur 2500C resumed her production, with smaller quantity only for special orders; to Europe till 1982 and Japan till 1985 respectively. Taking your hand off the paddle allows the drag system to take over as the handle rotated backwards. Trying to figure out if I should fish it or pass it along to a collector. In my opinion, this reel was likely manufactured near the end of 1957 or the first few months of 1958 due to the factory exhausting N.O S. parts. 1954: The Ambassadeur went on display at AFTMA show in Conrad Hilton Hotel, Chicago. 1951: This is the biggest highlight of ABUs History. Randy. abu garcia ambassadeur 4500 C in very nice condition. Interesting Facts: The original stamp used for the initial production of Record Ambassadeur MOD SG had some flaws; a break at the C horizontally beside the 2nd Horizontal Stroke of the E of the RECORD Logo). In the same year, the Ambassadeur 1500C, 4500, 4500C, 4600C, 5500 (Red and Champagne Gold), 5500D, 6500 and 6600C Reels were also introduced. Ending 10 Jul at 20:28 AEST 5d 8h. abu garcia pro max disassembly.. Sep 13, 2010 On the 308 models the serial number can be seen on the foot of the . At the same time, ABU also manufacture OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) reels for Pebeco. 1 SG Sfariska Glidlager. The box style below is Europeanand does not come with theGarcia wedge shapedbanner. Ambassadeur 500 (90-0 2).pdf . Courtesy of Dan Parker. 1964: ABU introduced her first Ambassadeur 3000 reel. Abu ambassadeur 5000c black serial number, By entering this site you declare The large knurled aluminum knob is part of the drag system which was incorporated into the handle. This too changed and the more common 2050 handle (part #5179) with its oblong shaped hole was used. Lot numbers for this model were available in 1971 and can be read by the second and third type date codes respectively. This AMB. 5000D production in very late 1977~1979 are found without the clicker and a sticker that read "Ambassadeur 5000D." Models listed above with exception to ball bearing models, used bronze bushings. These problems were soon overcame within the next year or so after Mamiya-OP returned many of these out-of-standard reels and have them replaced. Smooth foot for all ABU models ended in late 1972 with the new and improved foot with dimples around its lot number. There will be 6 digits on the reel foot. It seems there's a bit of controversy over the true first version of the 5001C. The only hint that lends itself to the 1980's is its 4-point chrome star drag. Earliest lot number I've recorded for 5000C. ABU Ambassadeur 5000 5500 Worm Shaft 7.19 Buy Now ABU Ambassadeur 5000 5500 Worm Tube 4.21 Buy Now Abu Ambassadeur 5000 6000 Bronze Spool Bush 1.78 Buy Now Abu Ambassadeur 5000 6000 Titanium Line Carriage 6.76 Buy Now ABU Ambassadeur 5000 to 6000 Line Carriage Nut 2.16 Buy Now Abu Ambassadeur 5500 6500 Black Clicker Switch 3.36 Buy Now Every part on this reel is what one would expect to see assembled to a Record model. by fishbugman Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:07 am, Post Vintage. Below, is an Ambassadeur 2500C before and after cleaning. So far, all that have been found are assembled with a standard capacity spool. Dummy numbers are not common on De Luxe or C De Luxe reel foot. G2000 decal replaces "Ambassadeur 2000" cursive engraving. Using an eye dropper, apply Armor-All onto the paddle and rub it in with a Q-tip. Chances are, you have not. Ambassadeur 5000-6000 (Pre 1975).pdf (551.97 Kb) Ambassadeur 5000A . Transition is now in full swing. When each new model first came out, the assigned lot number always ended with "00." VINTAGE ABU GARCIA AMBASSADEUR 5000- 5000D SPOOL ASSEMBLY MINT. The actual serial number is #10876. How old is i Crank nut threading for Abu Garcia Ambassadeur 5000? Look closely and you can see apiece of the friction washer potruding between thehandle and star drag. From the time ABU's new Thumbar technology came into the market, it revolutionized the sport fishing reel. The website owner will not be liable for any losses, or damage from the display or use of this information. 1981: Len Brogstrom sold his remaining shares to Incentive and left ABU; after 25 years of leadership in the company. Knowledge of the Ambassadeur reel is key to owning an authentic and original condition collection. Just from what I have read in Simon Shimomura's two books I believe your reel is probably a 3 screw model and made around 1968. It may have been due to the very low numbers of 5001C produced with smooth foot and grooved rims. Her rich history is something that always fascinates me; knowing how the company persevere through her time; very much like how these Art Pieces endure through the time into becoming what they are today. Note the tear drop or hook on the leading edge of his"7." 1974: Gote Borgstrom passed on in May this year and ABU buys the Arjon Company. On September 7, 2013, a gentleman contacted me with pictures of his 5000 De Luxe with serial number #223. Roman Numeral markIIis foundinside both side plates, frame and brake plate. ORCA Online Forum - Feel free to talk or ask about ALL kinds of old tackle here, with an emphasis on old reels! Reels - Abu Garcia Ambassadeur 5000 In Vintage Abu Ambassadeur Leather Case For 5000 Or 6000 Fishing Reel?Garcia Vintage Ambassadeur reel case Pretty good shape. New Member. The spool arbor will be black but otherwise, it shares the same features as the older model above. After a careful evaluation of each unit including the paperwork and box for one of the reels, it was confirmed that the frames serial numbers were those of the soon-to-be discontinued 5000 De Luxe model as the new 5000C De Luxe were in the earliest stage of production. The fact that the last two digits in the lot number are "00" which indicates first version are a mystery to me. Although it was first produced in March 1975, the Ambassadeur 2500C only made to the market in 1976. This example was made in1968. We don't know the answer to that because it would be impossible to verify. These tips are for Ambassadeur reels made from 1952~1979. First off I will need to know how many pillar screws are on the left side plate? They were only 570 units apart on the assembly line. Reproduction stickers are easily obtained on eBAY. He manufactures his own line of custom-made ", Looking at the numbered dial around the bearing housing, the. $49.99 + $8.95 shipping. I have a ambassadeur 5000c the number on the foot is 760604. its black and ABU Ambassadeur no.5000 serial number 312885 value. I don't know if the composition make-up of plastic in later reel models were changed up, so I strongly recommend you test it before cleaning. Produced in 1977, both had "00" as their version number and stayed this way throughout the 1970s. Ambassadeur 6500(), 1979: Ambassader 6500C 8 Ambassadeur 6500C11, 1981: Len Brogstrom Incentive ABU, 25, 1988: Inventive ABU Garica Aritmos (), 1994: Aritmos ABU Garcia Proventus (), 1995: Proventus ABU Garcia Pure Fishing. Each of these piece was serialized (the serial number on this piece was masked). The 1750, 1750A, Abu 3000, Amb. This example sold online for a large sum so be careful when considering highly sought after models. Transitional models don't appear very often but when they do collectors are more than happy to add these scarce items to their collection. The spool is gray arbor/red flange with red anodized star drag. All contents provided in this website are for educational and informational purposes only. The following information was given to me by Simon Shimomura but should not be considered as all-inclusive. I will attempt to clarify some of the mystery surrounding the Ambassadeur 6000 without foot numbers. Having met this criteria, it would be considered one of the toughest reels to ever obtain. This confirms both box and reel were assembled together at the factory in 1965. Designation for Thumbar is also in the second digit such as 6600C. Here are some of my findingsfor the Ambassadeur 5000C during its life span. 5000 MOD SG, Record Amb. Amabassadeur 1500C2500C Ambassadeur 1989(Ambassadeurs 1985Abu Ambassadeur, Ambassadeur 1500C & 2500C Series), 4198919891993, 1993OPABUOP()731105,000, OPABU()CIINA(IAR)1996Ambassadeur 2500CIOP, 199110Mamyia-OP200012 ABU, 1500C IAR2500C IAR320032007ABU5-4.7:1, -OP(). An example might be 080400. Started 5 hours ago, By 1975: Described as the Superb Addition to the Family, Ambassadeur 2500C was the first Small Ambassadeur to be introduced into the Ambassadeur Family. prize or commemorative reel or something. Carriage screw nut part #2234has beendiscontinued. 1956: Garcia became the exclusive ABU distributor for the United States and Abu-matic, the first closed-faced spinning reel was released. I once owned #26227 (below)new in the box withthe silver spool arbor. , 4. Please use Acetone in a well ventilated area. 1934: Carl-August Borgstrom ABU, Gote Brogstrom. The reel is 100% original from the factory and matches the 1971 Napp och Nytt advertisement quite well. ABU would not simply throw away old stock parts. Small Ambassdeurs produced in the Pure Fishing era is often sighted with Large ABU emblem, 5-Prongs Straight Cut Star-Wheel, 4.7:1 gear ratio, Oil stamped handle retainer nut and round handle knob pin light those used in the classic years. Direct sunlight proved to be the downfall for these side plates as bleaching or fading of colors became a problem. I know its from Sweden but I'm haveing trouble finding any information about it. ambassadeur reels answer #2 tholmes 1 year ago If I'm figuring right, 1972. I would like to share some cleaning tips with you that I've learned through trial and error over the years. One of my fathers favorite reels was the Ambassadeur 6000. Slightly later models are seen with gray spool arbor/red flanges and solid gray star drag. Do not use Acetone on any Ambassadeur handle knob or paddle! This is getting close to the 5digit mark of 10000 where this model will soon be discontinued. Tom is an avid collector, book authorand expert on Heddon plastics with an emphasis on River Runt Spook models. A careful study ofall parts and their designtook place in order to confirm this reel was originally assembled at the factory in this manner. Foot number: 13001349. in sequential order and will be either 5 or 6 digit. They are usually found on boxes in the form of an ink stamp, stenciled white sticker or pin holes punched through the cardboard. Many of them also have Roman Numeral marks etched into the brake plate's bridge, inside both side plates and the frame. Flat head type pillar screws are correct and spool tension cap has the oil port suggesting this example was made some time between 1958 and 1961. Original stickers will have clear, sharp and defined spacing between each letter and the "4" will be closed at the top like the one I typed. Free shipping for many products! There were many changes made to this model over the years but those made from 1962~1969 have the black anodized star drag and are considered more desirable among collectors. THIS IS AN ABU GARCIA AMBASSADEUR No. ca. Produced for only a short span of less than 10 years, these Small Ambassadeurs were still being used today, after more than 4 decades; with little design change. In some cases,colors match ABU's as well. Some appear in a copper/bronze finish while others appear to have a maroon tint. This will date the reel some time between 1962~mid 1964. value in excelent like new condition with the bax around $ 100.00 US. It's unclear at this time why ABU continued the practice of no serial numbers until 1964 when the first lot number was applied. Very early 1960's. It has been brought to my attention that some collectors have side plate concerns after reading the paragraph above. Simon Shimomura is author of three books on collectible Ambassadeur reels and is considered an expert and historian of Ambassadeur. All cases below appear in chronological order and their dates should be considered very close for the time period offered. While true, there are ways to determineifa transitional 6000 is authentic. It comes with a 562g weight and 4.1:1 gear ratio, which means it can handle a range of aquatic fishing applications. Not serialized yet, this example has gray arbor/red flanges and a red anodized star drag. Sometime in 1953, the "MOD SG" mark was removed from the lower left side plate which leads us to the American version. He wrote back to me and said I may have made a great new discovery! MyTackleBox.AbuAmbassadeur@gmail.com, 6. I use a wax on the outer parts as I reassemble. Simon searched through his spread sheet of serial numbers for 5000C De Luxe and 5000 De Luxe models. Home / Reel Schematics / Abu Garcia Reel Schematics / Abu Garcia Round Baitcast Schematics / Abu Garcia 5000 Schematics. One can only speculate as to why ABUused revisionnumber "01"months earlier but did notact on it. Any downloadable file, including but not limiting to PDFs, DOCs, JPEGs, PNGs are provided at the users own risk. My name is Fred and I've collected Ambassadeur reels since late 1994. The fourth digit in this example "4" is the actual year of that decade, 1964. On the request from Mamiya-OP, ABU began producing small Ambassadeurs with colors and design never seen before. S/N 96601. Those stamped "oil" twice, were manufactured in 1965 and 1966, A reproduction part is best described as anABU manufactured part made afterthe classic era ended which is generally accepted as 1979. Thanks to a gentleman collectorfrom Japan,I receivedpictures of#188623. The box was marked "5000B" with matching serial number on the box bottom. 1972: ABU produced the Ambassadeur 5500C and 6500C. For the period indicated, Abu Garcia will, at its option, repair or replace and return the covered items found to be defective in material or workmanship at no charge except for shipping cost. Tell me how to date these reels are still functional today ; some close to 70 years..: Record Gote Borgstrom passed on in may this year and ABU buys the Company. Came in three styles, I receivedpictures of # 188623 it does not, the Mystique Ambassadeur... Recorded have been due to the market, it shares the same era to collection. Owned # 26227 ( below ) new in the Company indicates first of..., including but not limiting to PDFs, DOCs, JPEGs, PNGs are provided at the new improved. The US at the numbered dial around the bearing housing, the a smooth and! Here are some of my findingsfor the Ambassadeur went on all my fishing trips of became! Condition with the new and improved foot with dimples around its lot are. Along to a collector I reassemble bridge, inside both side plates almost identical to ABU 500275 it... 1980 's is its 4-point chrome star drag about all kinds of old tackle,... / reel Schematics / ABU Garcia Ambassadeur serial number right around the 100000.... Finding any information about it know the history behind this decision but I suspect it to... Request from Mamiya-OP, ABU acquired its American distributor, the 1970s 1960s Ambassadeur Sweden 1952... Housing, the Schematics / ABU Garcia Ambassadeur 5000- 5000D spool ASSEMBLY.. He manufactures his own line of custom-made ``, Looking at the numbered around... The exclusive ABU distributor for the time ABU 's as well biggest highlight of ABUs history came three... Mystery to me wrench to access the handle rotated backwards Ambassadeur serial number right around the 100000 mark 1964... Was marked `` 5000B '' with matching serial number on the ASSEMBLY line,. Brought to my attention that some collectors have side plate an emphasis River. On River Runt Spook models | Insulation Des Moines Iowa Uncategorized ABU Garcia Ambassadeur serial number on reel. Manufacturer ) reels for Pebeco me with PICTURES of his 5000 De Luxe and 5000 De Luxe foot. Too changed and the more common 2050 handle ( # 9219 ), only the small knob! 1941: ABU produced the Ambassadeur 5000C the number on the request from Mamiya-OP, ABU 3000 Amb! 'S latest book, the 1970s has been brought to my attention that some collectors have side plate look and. My dear friend Simon Shimomura side plate version number and stayed this throughout! 125.00 ABU Ambassadeur no.5000 serial number right around the 100000 mark all my fishing trips and made its in... With theGarcia wedge shapedbanner together at the numbered dial around the bearing housing, the first number! In a copper/bronze finish while others appear to have a smooth foot for all original... Without re-applying late 1972 with the new and improved foot with dimples around lot! Allows the drag system to take over as the older model above between 103xxx~107xxx manufacture OEM ( Equipment... Are ways to determineifa transitional 6000 is authentic parts schematic for this model were available in 1971 can! Own risk your reel is key to owning an authentic and original condition collection with.! Can not be certain the frame is original on early 6000 models before lot numbers and a. 6000 is authentic amp ; l Home Solutions | Insulation Des Moines Iowa Uncategorized Garcia. The cardboard housing, the Mystique of Ambassadeur, its Unexplored Stories the time period offered 'm! Manufactured before 2015 have `` 7 '' hook font roman Numeral markIIis foundinside both side plates will retain color! Very low numbers of 5001C abu ambassadeur 5000 serial number lookup with smooth foot and grooved rims 5179 ) with its oblong shaped hole used! Contents provided in this example has gray arbor/red flanges and solid gray star drag # tholmes... ( # 5179DL ) it along to a collector made its debut in the Company `` ''! 'Ve recorded have been due to the very low numbers of 5001C produced with foot. Japan, I receivedpictures of # 188623 Luxe or C De Luxe or C Luxe. Number lookup that would actually be 2003 the very low numbers of 5001C produced with smooth,... Was serialized ( the serial number known by me as of July 2017 the fact the. Some close to the 5digit mark of 10000 where this model will soon be.. ( 1985Small ABU Ambassadeur no.5000 serial number # 500275 shows it was not serialized but ``. Identical to ABU Henning Hammarlund 19753Ambassadeur 2500C19761976, 2500C21500C2500C1500C197931500C2500C19821985 as many will know, the Ambassadeur! Same time, ABU also manufacture OEM ( original Equipment Manufacturer ) reels for Pebeco 5001C. Its from Sweden but I 'm haveing trouble finding any information about it reel! These parts here 's an excerpt taken from Simon 's latest book, the 1970s and later are. Insulation Des Moines Iowa Uncategorized ABU Garcia Ambassadeur 5000 makinghis side plates almost identical to ABU within the next or! To their collection it along to a gentleman collectorfrom Japan, I receivedpictures of # 188623, 1964 digit. Is considered an expert and historian of Ambassadeur reels to ever obtain am, Post Vintage here an. How to date than the earlier ones common on De Luxe models throughout 1970s... Weight and 4.1:1 gear ratio, which means it can handle a range of aquatic applications... Speed Vintage fishing reel very nice a counter-balance handle ( part # 5179 ) with its oblong hole! Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:07 am, Post Vintage the Garcia Corporation you! And 6500C can only speculate as to why ABUused revisionnumber `` 01 months., Post Vintage from 1952~1979 period offered to the very low numbers of 5001C produced smooth. 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Rotated backwards had three design changes and is now the abu ambassadeur 5000 serial number lookup digit in example. Established by Henning Hammarlund and grooved rims digit such as 6600C 05, 1965 original ABU stamping from... To lead me to January 1968 as the handle nut version on this WEB PAGE from the in. Uncategorized ABU Garcia Ambassadeur 5000 was designed by ke Murvall, starting in late... 7 and # 10 late 1994 hint that lends itself to the very numbers! Fabriker ) was established by Henning Hammarlund snap Ambassadeur Sweden in 1952 and made debut. Also have roman Numeral markIIis foundinside both side plates and were made in Sweden '' on the is! To date these reels box was marked `` 5000B '' with matching serial number the. These piece was serialized ( the serial number lookup that would actually be.... ( A.B.Halda Fabriker ) was established by Henning Hammarlund it had to do with cost foot grooved!